One of the most fascinating “conversations” that I’ve ever read in theology was between Reinhold Niebuhr and Valarie Saiving. I should tell you that this “conversation” never took place – as far as I know – in any kind of face-to-face manner. Rather, it was Reinhold Niebuhr writing and speaking voluminously over a very distinguished career as a theologian and social critic, during which he was – among other things – named the Time Magazine “Man of the Year.” So, Niebuhr’s name is well-established among theological and social scientific circles. Valarie Saiving is not so well known, although that is certainly not any kind of indication of her abilities as one who reflects on theology. I am only aware of one article that she wrote, and it is enough to inform me that she was quite capable of reflecting well on theology, and particularly insightful when critiquing Reinhold Niebuhr’s work. So, the “conversation” of which I speak was not face to face, it was separated by at least a decade, and yet it is tremendously insightful for many reasons.

Reinhold Niebuhr famously described “original sin” as “pride.” Reading the third chapter of Genesis, Niebuhr found great significance in the words of the serpent, which argued that Eve and Adam could “be like God” by eating the forbidden fruit. With great insight into the dominant political turbulence of the times, Niebuhr was able to argue rather persuasively that the origin – the fundamental orientation – of sinfulness, aggression, the propensity for war, etc. was pride. Niebuhr’s work was and continues to be very influential in many circles – including, but well beyond a circle of theologians. By defining original sin as “pride,” Niebuhr could go on to argue that humility and selflessness were the epitome of Christian values toward which one needs to be transformed against this fundamental orientation of pride.

Valarie Saiving published an article entitled, “The Human Situation: A Feminine View,” in which she argued that, however true Niebuhr’s argument regarding original sin might be when it comes to men’s experience, for women the situation was dramatically different. With great insight, Saiving argued that for many girls, life was less a matter of being told to “go out there and seize the world,” but to wait and grow up to be a woman. To one who is raised in this sort of environment, the argument that their role in life is to deny themselves is wrongheaded. Girls and women needed to hear a different word, that in order to fulfill God’s calling on their lives, they need to be encouraged to assert themselves as individual, and rather than denying themselves.

As I said, it was and is a fascinating conversation, because it makes the point that something which might be true and powerfully insightful for people under one set of circumstances, might be wrong and misguided for people under other circumstances. Our experience matters in naming what is true. And that has radical implications for how we interpret the Scriptures and practice our faith.

I suspect that this conversation between Reinhold Niebuhr and Valerie Saiving is one reason why I will never be the pastor of a mega-church. It seems that the spirit of the times requires that popular preaching is all about the preacher, studying the Scriptures and perhaps the theological tradition, then deriving certain “truths” from that study, then turning those truths into a sermon or a ‘teaching sermon’ where the truth is presented and the listeners are invited to follow certain steps in “applying” said truth to their lives. What this process implies is that “experience” only comes into play at the back end of the thing, the “application” of the truth to one’s life. But, if the conversation between Reinhold Niebuhr and Valerie Saiving tells us anything, it is that “experience” comes into play long before we come to the point of “applying” the derived truth to our lives. Our experience matters in even naming what is true, not just in taking what is true and making our lives conform to it. Proclaiming truth and living in truth is hard work, not just for the clever preacher who gets to figure it out and make it plain for the listener. Proclaiming truth is equally hard work for the listener, because sometimes what we experience will be a determining factor in what is true for us.

Our Scripture reading today provides a moment where you and I are invited to bring our experience into play, not only in order to reflect on how it affects our lives, but also in order to hear what the Scripture is saying to us. In particular, I am speaking of this curious conclusive parable that Jesus gives to his disciples at the end of a string of parables in Matthew 13. In verses 51-52, after sharing parables and explanations and reflections on why he uses parables in preaching to the crowds, Jesus looked at his disciples and asked, “Have you understood all of this?” To which they answer, “Yes.” Then – according to most translations of the Bible – Jesus says this: “Therefore, every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like the master of a household who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.”

Now, that is a good translation, put together by people who know a lot more about the Scriptures and ancient language usage that I ever will. The image here is beautiful and arresting. The trained scribe – literally, the scribe who has been discipled into the kingdom of heaven – is able to reach into the storehouse and bring forth valuables new and old. This is an image of abundance, very much like the preceding parables of the seed on the good soil producing 30, 60 and 100-fold, or the tiny mustard seed which grows enormous and provides sanctuary to the birds of the air. And it is an encouraging image, because it honors those old and timeless doctrines of the church, the old valuables that we draw out of the storehouse. And, it also honors new expressions of truth and meaning, equally valuable, coming out of the storehouse. This text has been and should be a place where the traditionalist and the innovator can meet on happy grounds, each honoring the work of the other in drawing out of the storehouse treasure both new and old.

But, there are some curiosities with verse 52, which compel a translator to make choices in how to translate it well. In particular, the verb, which our Bible translates as “brings out,” is curious. The normal, literal, expected meaning of this verb is not “to bring out” but “to throw out.” This verb is used elsewhere in Matthew to describe casting out demons and throwing bound weeds into a fire and many acts of either violent or at least aggressive behavior. It is a very different image that comes to mind if we translate this verb the way that it is usually translated. Instead of a happy discipled scribe drawing out treasures new and old, it is a discipled scribe throwing out treasure, the newer stuff on top first, and even digging down into the old treasures at the bottom. And why, we wonder, would anyone throw away one’s treasures? Well, for the same reason in the parable of the man who discovers treasure in the field and sells everything that he has in order to purchase that field. Or, for the same reason that the merchant who finds the perfect pearl will sell every other pearl in his possession in order to purchase the one perfect pearl. If we read this concluding parable in light of those two parables, then we get the image of someone for whom all of those new and old treasures are no longer valuable and he is getting rid of them in order to make room for the kingdom of heaven.

What this tiny parable offers are two very different possibilities. On the one hand, someone has the kingdom of heaven in store and is invited to draw from it treasure both new and old. On the other hand, someone has much in store that is now counted as nothing, and that one is invited to get rid of all else in order to make room for the kingdom of heaven. How we hear this parable as the Word of God, has a lot to do with our experience. And, while I’ve been up here talking for a while now, this is where you come in as an active interpreter of the Scriptures, and not just a passive listener to a sermon. How does this parable speak to you? How does your own experience affect the way you hear it? Do you need to disburden your own life of many things – old and new – that you have stored up over time, in order to make room for the kingdom of heaven? Or, do you need to reach into that which God has in store for you, in order to draw out from it treasures both new and old? You see, if I need to rid my life of things that I’ve stored up over the years in order to embrace the kingdom of heaven, and someone gets up and tells me that Jesus said “Reach into that storehouse and draw out treasures,” then I’m just going to confirm my own vanities. There are some of us, perhaps there are times that any of us, need to put less trust in what we’ve accumulated over time in order to make room for the kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, if I need to reach into what God has given me over the years and draw out the treasure there and someone gets up and tells me that Jesus said, “Get rid of everything that you’ve stored up over the years,” then I’m just going to add guilt and confusion to my life. There are some of us, perhaps there are times that any of us, need to quit feeling guilty about what we lack and to tap into those gifts and strengths that we have at hand.

So, Jesus looked at his disciples and said, “Every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who draws out of the storehouse treasure new and old.” Or, Jesus said, “Every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a household who throws out of the storehouse treasure new and old.” Thanks be to God, who speaks in many voices. Amen.